An Interview with Menno Simons
Illustration of Menno Simons by Hugo Burkner from the book Sweihundert detusche Manner in Bildnissen und Lebensbeschreibungen (Two hundred German men in portraits and biographies), Leipzig 1854, edited by Ludwig Bechstein.
Credit: Wikimedia Commons
The writing of the past has much to teach us, and with a little bit of imagination and creative license, we have put together a conversation of sorts between Kevin Wiebe, the editor of Theodidaktos, and Menno Simons. All the questions are the work of editor, and all of Menno Simons’ “responses” to these questions are excerpts taken from The Complete Writings of Menno Simons, C.1496–1561 1. We hope that you find this to be an engaging way to interact with some of the teachings from our collective historical past.
Kevin: We would like to begin this conversation by asking you about your faith journey. How old were you when you first entered the ministry, and under what circumstances did you come to have the faith that you do—a faith that impacted generations of people around the world?
Menno: It happened in the year 1524, my age then being twenty-eight, that I assumed the duties of a priest in my paternal village called Pingjum. Two others of about my age also officiated in the same functions. The one was my pastor, fairly well educated. The other was below me. Both had read the Scriptures a little, but I had never touched them, for I feared if I should read them, I would be misled. Behold, such an ignorant preacher was I for nearly two years.
In the year following it occurred to me, as often as I handled the bread and wine in the Mass, that they were not the flesh and blood of the Lord. I thought that the devil was suggesting this so that he might separate me from my faith. I confessed it often, sighed, and prayed; yet I could not come clear of the idea.
The two young men mentioned earlier and I spent our time emptily in playing [cards] together, drinking, and in diversions as, alas, is the fashion and usage of such useless people. And when we touched upon the Scriptures I could not speak a word with them without being scoffed at, for I did not know what I was driving at, so concealed was the Word of God from my eyes.
Finally, I got the idea to examine the New Testament diligently. I had not gone very far when I discovered that we were deceived, and my conscience, troubled on account of the aforementioned bread, was quickly relieved, even without any instructions. I was in so far helped by Luther, however: that human injunctions cannot bind unto eternal death.
Through the illumination and grace of the Lord I increased in knowledge of the Scriptures daily, and was presently considered by some (not correctly however) to be an evangelical preacher. Everyone sought and desired me; the world loved me and I loved the world. It was said that I preached the Word of God and was a good fellow.
Afterwards it happened, before I had ever heard of the existence of brethren, that a God-fearing, pious hero named Sicke Snijder was beheaded at Leeuwarden for being rebaptized. It sounded very strange to me to hear of a second baptism. I examined the Scriptures diligently and pondered them earnestly, but could find no report of infant baptism.
After I had noticed this, I discussed it with my pastor and after much talk he had to admit that there was no basis for infant baptism in Scripture. Still I dared not trust my own understanding but consulted several ancient authors. They taught me that children are by baptism cleansed from their original sin. I compared this idea with the Scriptures and found that it did violence to the blood of Christ.
Afterwards I consulted Luther. For I sought for the basis of baptism. He taught me that children were to be baptized on account of their own faith. I perceived that this also was not in accordance with the Word of God.
Thirdly I consulted Bucer. He taught that infants are to be baptized so that they might be the more carefully nurtured in the way of the Lord. I perceived that this doctrine also was without foundation.
Fourthly I consulted Bullinger. He pointed to the covenant and to circumcision. This I found likewise to be incapable of Scriptural proof.
When I noticed from all these that writers varied so greatly among themselves, each following his own wisdom, then I realized that we were deceived in regard to infant baptism … .
And so, my reader, I obtained a view of baptism and the Lord’s Supper through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, through much reading and pondering of the Scriptures, and by the gracious favor and gift of God; not by the instrumentality of the erring sects as it is reported of me. I hope that I write the truth and do not seek vain glory. But if some have contributed and have assisted me somewhat, then I render thanks to the Lord forever for this… .
And so you see … in this way the merciful Lord through the liberal goodness of His abounding grace took notice of me, a poor sinner, stirred in my heart at the outset, produced in me a new mind, humbled me in His fear, taught me to know myself in part, turned me from the way of death and graciously called me into the narrow pathway of life and the communion of His saints. To Him be praise forevermore. Amen.2
Kevin: You have been a controversial figure throughout history. How would you respond to those who wonder why you would write and speak so much despite all the contention around your work?
Menno: I am well aware … that we because of our teaching and writing are cursed, loathed, hated, reviled, persecuted, and eagerly condemned to death by innumerable persons of both high and low estate. The roaring lions gnash their teeth at us. Lords, princes, learned and ignorant people alike rage against us in unspeakable tyranny, as may at all times be seen; not only against us but also against all those who accept and fulfill in deed this our doctrine with believing, faithful, obedient hearts. Not that it is our doctrine, understand this. It is the eternal, heavenly, and unchangeable doctrine of our dear Lord Jesus Christ, which He Himself has brought from high heaven, from the bosom of His Father to earth with His own blessed mouth which cannot lie; which He has taught and heralded to the world by His faithful witnesses, the holy apostles, chosen for that purpose … .
My writing and preaching is nothing else than Jesus Christ. I seek and desire nothing (this the Omniscient One knows) but that the most glorious name, the divine will, and the glory of our beloved Lord Jesus Christ may be acknowledged throughout the world. I desire and seek sincere teachers, true doctrines, true faith, true sacraments, true worship, and an unblameable life. For this I must pay dearly with so much oppression, discomfort, trouble, labor, sleeplessness, fear, anxiety, care, envy, shame, heat and cold, and perhaps at last with torture, yes, with my blood and death. My reward according to the flesh must not be otherwise than that of Him who from the beginning has sought the salvation of the world. I say with holy John the Baptist, Christ Jesus must increase but I must decrease. John 3:30. He lives forever and ever, but I shall return to the dust from whence I came, as will all the children of men.
I beseech you again by the mercy of God and for the salvation of your souls that you may weigh my doctrine and the doctrine of all men who have written from the times of the apostles, and write now, with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of His holy apostles, lest you be deceived by me or by some other man, no matter whether he be a prince, learned or unlearned, holy in appearance or miraculous. Is it the Word of God which I teach? Let those who are spiritual judge. In that case they must accept it in the name of the Lord if they would not be lost. But if it be human doctrine, then let it be accursed of God. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid by the apostles which is Christ Jesus. I Cor. 3:11.
No doctrine is profitable or serviceable to our salvation but the doctrine of Christ Jesus and His holy apostles as He Himself says, Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Matt. 28:19.
All Scripture both of the Old and New Testament rightly explained according to the intent of Christ Jesus and His holy apostles is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. II Tim. 3:16. But whatever is taught contrary to the Spirit and doctrine of Jesus is accursed of God. Gal. 1.3
Kevin: We find ourselves in very troubling times, with a growing number of very divided factions in the church. How would you respond to this growing concern about division, given how many divisions existed in your time as well?
Menno: The eternal, merciful God who has called us from darkness into His marvelous light, yes, has led us into the kingdom of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ, must keep us upon the right way, that Satan by his wiles may not deceive us and no root of bitterness spring up among us to make confusion and many be defiled, as alas happens to some these days. It must be that sects arise among us that those who are approved may be made manifest.
Let none stumble at this but let all give heed to the Word of God and abide by it … This is the true nature of all false teachers. They desert the pure doctrine of Christ and begin to traffic in strange doctrine. They get others under their spell so that they cannot believe the truth and they use smooth talk as Paul says: By good works and fair speeches, they deceive the hearts of the simple. They leave their master Christ, whom alone they should hear as the Father testifies saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. But this voice from the Father all false teachers forget, and they leave their only master, Christ Jesus, for since they are not of His sheep, they do not hear His voice. The false teachers forget the covenant of their God, and that to which we should give most heed they ignore, as Christ reprovingly said unto the Pharisees: Ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to have left the others undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Paul said, The end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart and of a good conscience and of faith unfeigned, from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither that which they say nor whereof they affirm.4
Kevin: Staying focused on Jesus. That really hits the nail on the head, so to speak, and cuts to the heart of the matter. Why do you think we so often get distracted from that simple profound truth of being born again as children of God, with Jesus Christ as the centre of our faith?
Menno: The poor, ignorant people are comforted in vain with masses, matins, vespers, confessionals, pilgrimages, and holy water, and what is more, with Christ’s grace, death, and blood. The Word stands unshaken: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die; for to be carnally minded is death. Therefore I advise and entreat you all together to heed Christ Jesus, who is sent to us as a witness of the truth from heaven. For thus says He, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. At another place: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God … Take heed; these words are not invented or instituted by man, nor are they resolved and decreed by any council. But they are the dependable, precious Word which the Son of God, Christ Jesus, brought to us from the mouth of the Father, and declared unto pious Nicodemus, the scribe, with a dual oath. The Word is powerful and clear and has reference not merely to Nicodemus, but to all the children of Adam who have come to the years of understanding. But alas, it is so obscured by the ugly, leavenous dung of human commands, statutes, and glosses, that scarcely one or two is found in a thousand who have caught the true sense and meaning of the heavenly birth, to say nothing of the active nature, power, properties, and fruits of it. Yes, they have pushed it so far with their philosophic cleverness and man-made holiness that the eternal Wisdom of God, Christ Jesus eternally blessed, is banished as a poor, senseless fool out of the house of His honor, which is His church, with His Holy Ghost, Word, baptism, Supper, divine worship, excommunication, and irreproachable example.5
Kevin: We have faced some incredibly difficult years as the church, and there are many people who have wished they could go to sleep and wake up a few years down the road when this is all over. How would you respond to those who feel this way?
Menno: I earnestly desire that you might awake, not hoping nor waiting for a different time. If, however, the merciful Father will give us a bit of freedom and peace, that we will gladly receive with all thankfulness from His gracious hand. But if not, His great name shall be praised forever.
We have already received the acceptable time of grace. The day of salvation is here. Now let us not be like ungrateful, disobedient, bloodthirsty Jerusalem which so perversely rejected the divine grace, the heavenly grace, and the merciful calling. But let us awake, be sober, and give ear to the inviting voice, and in this accepted time arise from the deep slumber of our loathsome sin, for the Lord is at hand. The night is far spent, the day is at hand; let us therefore cast off the works of darkness and let us put on the armor of light; let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying; but put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make not provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof. Let everyone be vigilant, and sleep not. Let him watch in the time which God has graciously given for repentance.6
Kevin: In Canada we no longer have capital punishment, however debates continue on within the church—even in Mennonite churches—about whether it is permissible for Christians to be involved in warfare, or whether or not a Christian is ever permitted to take the life of another, and under what circumstances this might be permitted. As someone who bears the name of a movement known for a stance of peace, what do you have to say about this topic?
Menno: I have from the beginning of my ministry fraternally warned them in my writings in faithful, unadulterated truth from my soul against the destruction of their souls, admonishing them to a godly, penitent, Christian life, pointing them with the Scriptures to the perfect Spirit, Word, commandment, prohibition, ordinance, and example of Christ … I said nothing more to you than that it would hardly become a true Christian ruler to shed blood. For this reason, If the transgressor should truly repent before his God and be reborn of Him, he would then also be a chosen saint and child of God, a fellow partaker of grace, a spiritual member of the Lord’s body, sprinkled with His precious blood and anointed with His Holy Ghost, a living grain of the Bread of Christ and an heir to eternal life; and for such an one to be hanged on the gallows, put on the wheel, placed on the stake, or in any manner be hurt in body or goods by another Christian, who is of one heart, spirit, and soul with him, would look somewhat strange and unbecoming in the light of the compassionate, merciful, kind nature, disposition, spirit, and example of Christ, the meek Lamb, which example He has commanded all His chosen children to follow.
Again, if he remain impenitent, and his life be taken, one would unmercifully rob him of the time of repentance of which, in case his life were spared, he might yet avail himself. It would be unmerciful to tyrannically offer his poor soul which was purchased with such precious treasure to the devil of hell, under the unbearable judgment, punishment, and wrath of God, so that he would forever have to suffer and bear the tortures of the unquenchable burning, the consuming fire, eternal pain, woe, and death. Never observing that the Son of man says: Learn of me, I have given you an example, Follow me, I am not come to destroy souls, but to save them … .
That the office of the magistrate is of God and His ordinance I freely grant. But him who is a Christian and wants to be one and then does not follow his Prince, Head, and Leader Christ, but covers and clothes his unrighteousness, wickedness, pomp and pride, avarice, plunder, and tyranny with the name of magistrate, I hate. For he who is a Christian must follow the Spirit, Word, and example of Christ, no matter whether he be emperor, king, or whatever he be. For these following admonitions apply to all alike: Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. Phil. 2:5. He that saith he abideth in him, ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. I John 2:6.7
Kevin: One final question—what would you say it means to live as a disciple of Jesus; what does it mean to walk in the way of true faith?
Menno: Behold, beloved reader, in this way true faith or true knowledge begets love, and love begets obedience to the commandments of God. Therefore Christ Jesus says, He that believeth on him is not condemned. Again at another place, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24. For true evangelical faith is of such a nature that it cannot lie dormant, but manifests itself in all righteousness and works of love; it dies unto the flesh and blood; it destroys all forbidden lusts and desires; it seeks and serves and fears God; it clothes the naked; it feeds the hungry; it comforts the sorrowful; it shelters the destitute; it aids and consoles the sad; it returns good for evil; it serves those that harm it; it prays for those that persecute it; teaches, admonishes, and reproves with the Word of the Lord; it seeks that which is lost; it binds up that which is wounded; it heals that which is diseased and it saves that which is sound; it has become all things to all men. The persecution, suffering, and anguish which befalls it for the sake of the truth of the Lord is to it a glorious joy and consolation.
All those who have such a faith, a faith that yearns to walk in the commandments of the Lord, to do the will of the Lord; these press on to all righteousness, love, and obedience. These prove that the Word and will of our beloved Lord Jesus Christ is true wisdom, truth, and love, is unchangeable and immutable until Christ Jesus shall come again in the clouds of heaven at the judgment day. These will not make light of God’s Word as does the ignorant world, saying, What good can water do me? But they diligently try to obey the Word of Christ in every particular, even if it leads to death for the body.8
1 Menno Simons, The Complete Writings of Menno Simons, C.1496–1561 (Scottdale: Herald Press, 1986).
2 Ibid., 668–672.
3 Ibid., 292, 312.
4 Ibid., 33.
5 Ibid., 90.
6 Ibid., 110.
7 Ibid., 921–922.
8 Ibid., 307–308.
